Honda Civic Type R vs SEAT Leon Cupra & Renaultsport Megane 275 Trophy Can Honda’s new Civic Type R beat SEAT and Renault and blast to the top of the hot hatch class? The Audi (here in Sportback hatch guise) has a smaller 325L luggage compartment and the dreaded puncture repair kit although it wins back points for a 40:20:40 split rear seat compared with the Cupra’s 60:40. The infotainment systems are likely to divide audiences too. The Audi’s sharp sophisticated system looks great and works as well Honda Civic Type R vs Seat Leon Cupra streetrace MSRIf you’d like to be notified every time I upload a video, subscribe and then click the bell icon next to The same official information place Civic as average reliability-wise, and Leon is more or less at the same level.Above it all, drivers of cars with the same engine as the Japanese car rank it on average as 4.8, while the one under the competitor's bonnet gets 4.5 out of 5. Performance & Fuel economy 52. The Focus is a bit heavier than its rivals, at 1,363kg; the Civic weighs 1,340kg and the Scala is 1,249kg. Interior quality is good here, because this Focus is the best yet in this regard Citroen C4 VS Seat Leon Συγκριτικό. 28/11/2023. 0,6 λτ/100 χλμ λιγότερο καίει το Citroen σε μικτό κύκλο και στην πόλη. Πιο γρήγορο το Seat Leon, τόσο από εκκίνηση όσο και στο προσπέρασμα. Το Leon είναι πιο σπορτίφ, το C4 . Which of these two Rs is the real kicker?What do you think of the copper-coloured highlights on the Cupra R? They might be construed as quite a divisive package, but in response there are two points. Firstly, Seat is only bringing in 24 and they’re all sold, so who cares what we think. And the second point is that we’re matching it with a Honda Civic Type R, so any concern about some styling elements of the Seat being over the top are completely on the Leon is enhanced by a modified Cupra body kit, and it comes with big brakes, revamped steering and camber angles, and a rortier exhaust. Styling on the Honda is, well, it’s whatever you think it is. So let’s stop looking at that outrageous spoiler and those basking shark vents, and step which point you’re met by a certain amount of red but beyond that you’re noticing that this is a seriously sorted, well laid out cabin that is a big step up from where the Civic Type R used to be. The seats – very red – are also very low, putting you just where you want to be when the rev counter heads towards the Civict Type R Price: £30,995 Engine: four-cylinder, turbo, petrol Power: 316bhp Torque: 295lb/ft 0-62mph: Top speed: 169mph Economy: CO2 emissions: 176g/kmIn the Cupra R it’s all pretty good, with highlights including the Alcantara wrapped round the steering wheel, and the great infotainment system (the one in the Honda is beyond hopeless). But, taken overall, you seem to be sitting too high and it feels more like a city car than a serious sporting nothing city car about the Honda, which is obviously bigger, lower and just generally more. The chassis feels supremely well sorted, leaving the suspension to do its thing of absorbing what we laughingly call our roads. It’s never going to be anything other than firm, even in Comfort setting, yet it’s not overly firm. Generally it feels brilliantly spent a very large fortune and sacrificed slaves and territories to turn the family saloon into something so very special. It’s clear that Seat tried very hard but they didn’t quite have so many human sacrifices to offer, nor as much gold in the treasury – or, at least, they weren’t prepared to spend it effect is a car that is very good by the standards of these things, but in comfort mode it feels like a jelly compared to the Honda, and then the jelly sets rather hard further up the you’re really motoring though, you’re reminded of the similarity in DNA between the Cupra and VW’s Golf Clubsport S. The real highlight though isn’t the top end, fabulous though that Leon Cupra R Price: £34,995 Engine: four-cylinder, turbo, petrol Power: 305bhp Torque: 280lb/ft Transmission: 6-speed manual, front-wheel drive 0-62mph: Top speed: 155mph Economy: CO2 emissions: 170g/kmIt’s the Leon’s remarkable ability to pull from just about anywhere on the dial that really impresses. This is a very easy engine to use, and it means you can rev it out like a boy racer or go virtually as quickly but with minimal sweat. That’s a neat it’s one the Honda can’t quite match. The turbocharged four-pot in the Honda certainly pulls hard, let’s not get carried away, but there’s just a hint of lag, just a bit more need for revs than in the Seat. The effect is that the Honda seems to build harder as the revs rise, aided further by a really delightful clutch and the Honda that really talks to you, telling you what’s going on all the time, helping you feel more at one with the machine. All those slaves and empires didn’t fall for nothing. The depth of ability here is basically bottomless, right up until R+ mode, which is actually a bit much for British roads – it can be too much on some racetracks even. Short of that though, the Type R is really, truly Cupra gets better as you go harder, but you can feel it taking the steps, stiffening the suspension and steering, while the Honda has such a wondrous chassis there isn’t such an awareness that these things are happening or need to are going to be some who will find the styling of the latest Type R simply too much to stomach. They’d prefer the Cupra R, but they’re only going to get one if they buy it already aesthetics aside, while the Cupra R is a great car and Seat must be commended for turning the Leon into such a remarkable force, it’s the Honda every time that shows what endless commitment, budget and engineering brilliance can achieve, even with a family saloon. Nie słuchaj tych wszystkich ludzi bo onic co najwyżej widzieli i jedno i drugie auto ale na okładce auto świata. A założę się, że wiekszość z tych ludzi nie ma nawet prawa jedno i drugie auto i sam oceń które jest lepsze. Taki temat to jak wyższość Świą Wielkanocnych nad Bożego narodzenia... Do tej pory nawet jedenej obiektywnej wypowiedzi nie "Leon ma niby beznadziejne silniki". Sprostujmy. W leonie są dostępne silniki benyznowe: - 85KM - zbyt słaby do tego auta ale dobrze znosi GAZ,1,6 - 102 KM - rozsądny wybór, dobry stosunek osiągów do spalania i dobrze znosi zasilanie TSI 125KM - podobno wyciągają się łańcuchy rozrządu, ale na ilość sprzedanych silników wcale nie było aż tak dużo usterek (nie zapomnijmy że silniki napedzaja Seata, VW, Skode i Audi)1,8 TSI 160KM jedna z lepszych jednostek napedowcyh w Leonie. Nie ma nadmiernie problemu z łańcuchem ogólnie bardzo dobre osiągi plus spalanie okolo 10 litrów w TSI 211/240KM - silniki bardzo wytrzymałe i o ile nie zajeżdzone to bezproblemowe. I śmiesznę są wypowiedzi typu nigdy nie miał tyle km... większość wypluwa albo okolice 240 km albo więcej. Argumenty? Wejdź na stronę streetracing i popatrz na wydruki z ty potwierdz, że nie wypluwają nawet 200km hę? Oraz silniki diesla:1,9 TDI 105 KM - w rzeczywistości rzadko kiedy mają 105 KM bo w większości ich moc oscyluje w okolicach 108-120km. Silnik wszystkim znany i lubiany. Niestety w większości przypadków ma na karku kilkaset tysięcy km przebiegu. Trzeba się postarać o dobry egzemplarz. Jesli trafisz na taki bierz w TDI 140KM sprzed 2008 roku na PD - jedni sobie chwalą jeżdzą po 300-400 tysiecy km i nic się nie dzieje innym padają po 50 000 km. 2,0 TDI 140/170 po 2008 roku na CR - bezproblemowe silniki, masz kase bierz w TDI 105km - wariant którym się jezdzi subiektywnie zdecydowanie gorzej niz 1,9 TDI. Inna charakterystyka silnika. Teraz CIVIC:Silniki benzynowe:1,4 - zbyt słaby1,8 ok 140 KM - dobry silnik, bierze olej i musisz lubić kręcenie obrotów. Do 4000 obr nie jedzie ze względu na charakterystykę silnika. Warty 201 KM - bezkompromisowy, wiertarka ale także musisz lubic krecenie silnika do 7000-8000 obr min. Do 5000 malo co sie 140km - Dobry, sprawdzony silnik. Zadbany brac. Psuja się duperele jak w kazdym biegow:W leonie malo kto narzeka na skrzynie, chodzi Civicku ludzie narzekaja na haczace skrzynie : z tylu zawieszenie wielowahaczowe, prowadzenie auta fantastyczne. Wielowahacz docenisz na szybkich zakretach zwlaszcza kiedy droga tak jak w polsce jest niezbyt wielu testach zawieszenie i prowadzenie leona II jest porownywane do Focusa. A to wiele jzu mowie za Z tylu przestarzala belka skretna. Podobne rozwiazanie jak w Citroenie BX z 1990 roku...Czemu to zastosowali nie jak kto lubi, tutaj to juz wybor wg gustu. Leon to tradycyjna deska rozdzielcza, od razu zlapiesz co gdzie projektant chyba mial adhd lub projektowalo to kilka projektantow i kazdy wstawial swoje patenty gdzie mu pasowalo...materialy mysle ze sportowa linia klinu, auto nie dla szaraków którzy na wszystko narzekają. civic design także z zacięciem sportowym lecz ten przeszklony przód wielu osobom nie odpowiada...Wnętrze: Podobna ilosc miejsca, ale bagaznik wyraznie wiekszy ma porownac cos do VW. Ludzie mówią że to wada i obciach. Ale nie ma co słuchać tych dzieci VW to tanie części, możesz je kupić nawet w kwiaciarni...Serwis: każdy zna technike vw bo tych aut jezdza milniony więc jest dobrze znana i także np w hondzie u znajomego, sprowadzali przez 3 tygodnie z japonii łożysko do koła...Przemyśl i nikogo nie słuchaj, dobrze ci LEONA bo na nim sie nie zawiedziesz. Ma fenomenalne wlasciwosci jezdne. Civic tez ma dobre ale nie az tak dobre jak Loen II. Uklad kierowniczy. Przejedz sie i tym i tym. Leon ma najlepszy uklad kierowniczy w klasie. Potwierdzone wieloma ma mniej silników ale wszystkie są godne polecenia. ma wiekszy bagaznik. Za diesla zaplacisz wieksze OC niz za 2,0 TDI VW. Compare two cars 2013. - 2016. C - Small family car hatchback, 5 door front Badges Production Vehicle class Body style Wheel drive Safety 2012. - 2015. C - Small family car hatchback, 5 door front Dimensons & Outlines Length Width Height Boot (min) Boot (max) Fuel tank 2013 Seat Leon 2012 Honda Civic © GAMA1 Solutions. Copying & distribution prohibited. Engine Petrol 4 - Inline, 2 valves per cylinder Turbo Engine Fuel Configuration Aspiration Displacement Power Torque Petrol 4 - Inline, 4 valves per cylinder Nat. Asp. Performance (manual gearbox) Gearbox type Vehicle weight Acc. 0-100 Top speed Cons. (urban) Cons. (highway) Cons. (average) CO2 emissions Performance (automatic gearbox) Gearbox type Vehicle weight Acc. 0-100 Top speed Cons. (urban) Cons. (highway) Cons. (average) CO2 emissions Expenses Virtual Adviser's™ opinion Overview Well, these are two pretty similar cars we have here! It's only details that could potentially make the difference. Considering they both belong to the small family car segment and utilize the same 5-door hatchback body style and the front wheel drive system, it all comes up to the specific petrol engine choice they offer. The first one has a Volkswagen-engineered powertrain under the hood, a 4-cylinder, 8-valves 110hp unit, while the other one gets its power and torque from a 4-cylinder, 16-valves 100hp engine designed by Honda. Safety The first thing to look into here would be the results from European New Car Assessment Programme (Euro NCAP) tests performed on the two cars. Good thing is that both vehicles got tested, with the same number of safety stars gained in the process. That aside, let's consider some other aspects which affect safety. Both vehicles belong to the small family car segment, which is generally classifying them somewhere in the middle safety-wise, but that fact doesn't break the tie between the two cars. On the other hand, taking kerb weight as an important factor into account, the Japanese car offers a marginal difference of 5% more metal. Reliability I don't like generalizing things when it comes to reliability, although it does seem that Honda as a brand displays somewhat better results, at least on all of the models level. That's the official data, while our visitors describe reliability of Seat with an average rating of and models under the Honda badge with out of 5. Independent research findings rank Leon as average reliability-wise, and Civic is more or less at the same should definitely mention that owners of cars with the same powertrain as the Spanish car rank it on average as while the one under the competitor's bonnet gets out of 5. Performance & Fuel economy Seat is way more agile, reaching 100km/h in seconds less than its competitor. In addition to that it accelerates all the way to 191 kilometers per hour, 4km/h more than the other car. When it comes to fuel economy things look pretty much the same for both cars, averaging around liters of fuel per 100 kilometers (55 mpg), in combined cycle. Verdict Honda is apparently more reliable, not too much, but just enough. The most important thing when deciding between any two vehicles should always be safety, both passive and active. In my opinion, everything taken into account, the Japanese car offers slightly better overall protection and takes the lead. From there things take a different direction, with Seat outracing its opponent in any situation possible, making it better choice for boy racers. To make things even better, it consumps less fuel! I believe that, when we take all into account, we have only one winner here - the Seat. Anyway, that's the most objective conclusion I could've came up with and it's based solely on the information found on this website. Aspects such as design, practicality, brand value and driving experience are there for you to measure them out. Also, you could use the oportunity to find out which car, everything taken into account, would be the perfect choice for you in the eyes of the virtual adviser™, out of vehicles we currently have in our database. Check a car by its VIN number Reality sometimes gets skewed at Speed Week. I mean, it's enough of a head-scrambler that we have both the P1 and 918 at our beck and call for a week, but down at the far end of the pitlane an entire touring car team is hanging out. There are laptops and air jacks, tyres by the score, neatly pressed team uniforms and talk of scrubbing in and diff settings. This is Honda Yuasa Racing. They've won 22 BTCC titles. Matt Neal is here, and so is his car. Whichis an estate. that weren't eye-rubbing enough, next to it sits another chunk of hardcore hatchery, the Seat Leon Cup Racer. You can buy one of these for £75,000 if you so wish, and if you spent a chunk more on it, I suspect you could make it road-legal. Or head in the other direction and compete in world touring cars. Or leave it as a bonkers track-day weapon. Seat says it's 30 per cent roadcar, but the only bit I recognise inside is the DSG gearlever. It looks worryingly seems odd that just about every car in the pitlane produces more power and will later get a chance to prove it by hammering these two in a straight line. Corners, though, are another matter altogether. And not an entirely straightforward one. You see, one of these behaves as you'd imagine a touring car to behave. The other doesn't. The only thing predictable about it is its Rowan HorncastleAdvertisement - Page continues belowI clamber into the Leon. There's a brake bias dial, some toggles for the ignition and many buttons on the steering wheel. The only one I actually need switches the cabin fan on and off. It gets hot in racing cars. It has 330bhp, which ought to be a lot for the front wheels to cope with, but is tamed by a hooky differential, punchy track widths and a broad expanse of slick rubber. Keen and smooth and grippy, it gives you a genuine flavour of racing without any intimidation. Well, a little intimidation - even when the rear tyres are warmed through, they'll give you a gentle nudge into oversteer if you chicken out mid-corner, and the DSG gearbox is a bit... it all holds together, the familiar turbo gets its point across effectively, the brakes are mighty and there's a cheeky scuff from the front splitter through a couple of the more twisted corners. And just like the best racers, the Leon then breaks down when we drive it slowly for tracking pictures. The next day, a man with a laptop comes. It makes no odds - the engine has had a strop. No laptime. This is a shame, as I'm 100 per cent sure it would've been faster than Matt Neal's racecar. With me driving, at this is Matt's actual racing car, not a demo or development car, and the process here is more complex. Matt has to warm it up and scrub in a new set of tyres. I have a lesson, during which I learn the Civic has a very active front diff and that I mustn't fiddle with the buttons, plus notice that the engineers and mechanics appear to be even more apprehensive than I am. They demand I wear race overalls, but, short of stripping Stig, the only set available belongs to Matt himself. So I'm not only driving his car but wearing his clothes. Matt is 6ft 6in. I look like an Oompa Loompa. I couldn't care less. I'm about to drive a front-running BTCC car, and if it drives as simply as the Leon, this will be a walk in the Corner one: massive rear-end skid - no heat in the rear tyres. Corner two: I do one thing with the steering, but, when I get back on the power, the car chooses a different direction entirely. Corner three: I turn the steering wheel, and nothing much happens. I panic and throw more lock on, at which point the front end bites abruptly and the rear slides again. Corner four, the hairpin: a repeat of corner one. Corner five is a heart-in-mouth fast left-hander onto the back straight. I'm so cowed, I'd have been faster in the - Page continues belowClearly, there's a lot going on here: the chief culprits being tyre temperature, a hilariously mobile rear end and a front diff that's too clever for its own good. I'm amazed how quickly - and noticeably - heat builds in the tyres, and lap two is a bit calmer. But the harder I go, the more aggressive the rear steering gets and the busier the diff. I have many methods of steering the car, only one of which is the wheel in front of me. That, the diff, the rear end and brakes can be used in any combination you see fit, all at the same time - and I've never been much of a multitasker. Everything affects the car's trajectory; it never seems to take the same corner the same way on any two laps. My brain struggles with the data starts to gel eventually, but if this Civic has taught me anything, it's just how ridiculously tricky it is to set up a touring car to go fast. You could spend days tweaking diff lock-up, damper rebound, rear camber and all the rest. After a few more laps, I decide that this would be a very good way to spend a few days. It's absorbingly tricky to drive fast. Bit like the P1. My reality has been skewed ContentGet all the latest news, reviews and exclusives, direct to your clicking subscribe, you agree to receive news, promotions and offers by email from Top Gear and BBC Studios. Your information will be used in accordance with our privacy policy. Home Ask HJ News Reviews Pricing Cars For Sale Advice Real MPG Forum Sat 15 Aug 2020 18:37 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Tony Houghton I want to buy a used car and I'm torn between a Honda Civic i-VTEC ES-T and a Seat Leon ST FR with Tech pack and the 138bhp TSI engine, both from 2014. I'm tempted by the Seat because it gets higher overall ratings in reviews, performs better, and the estate could be handy for taking my dogs out etc. However, the Honda is more sensible on the whole, and some of the gadgets seem better. I want it to last me at least 5 years, probably considerably more, but I only do very low annual mileage, so I'm not overly concerned that the smaller turbo engine might not be so robust (should I be?). My main concern is that the electronics might play up, and this might be one area where Seat is weaker than other VAG cars. But even Hondas aren't perfect in this respect when they get old. Any thoughts? Sat 15 Aug 2020 19:00 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - badbusdriver You do realise that the Civic also comes as an estate?. Boot is massive, not that the hatch's boot is small, it is bigger than most cars in the class (including the Leon). With that out the way, while the Leon is a reliable enough car, long term the Civic would be the one to go for. Going purely on what i have read, the Civic would be more refined and comfortable, the Leon more of a 'drivers car'. The Leon would also be both faster (especially overtaking with the extra torque of the turbo) and more efficient with that great engine. Sat 15 Aug 2020 20:57 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Tony Houghton Thanks. I think you're right, the Civic is the marginally better choice for me, including on grounds of its refinement, and its performance is still more than adequate. I don't specifically want an estate, it just would have been a small bonus. OTOH the hatch should be easier to park, especially as it has a rear camera. I've got some health issues, so I've restricted my choice to what's available fairly locally, otherwise the process would be too stressful. These two just happen to be the two best examples that match my criteria. Sat 15 Aug 2020 23:02 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - SLO76 Both are good used options. Test drive them both to see which appeals more and then hunt down a good example of either. I rate the Civic as a longterm risk free choice but the Leon TSi FR is a particularly nice car, with near diesel economy, good performance, nimble handling and sporty looks but it still rises ok. I’d buy based more on condition and history between these two but if all things were equal I’d probably have the Seat. I’d expand the search to include the Mazda 3 Skyactiv too which is a great used buy. It’s a very pleasant thing to drive, decent on fuel and reliability is top notch. A Toyota Auris Estate is a sensible option too if a bit dull. Edited by SLO76 on 15/08/2020 at 23:03 Sun 16 Aug 2020 00:37 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - SLO76 *rides ok Sun 16 Aug 2020 08:02 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - gordonbennet I know nothing of Seat's. I know a little more Civics because my daughter runs two (and two previous S types), a 2008 as a runabout and a 2016 TypeR, and i get to hear feedback via her cos she's into the Honda scene as it were. Whilst the Civics are very good cars indeed be aware the aircon compressor is a fairly common failure, it failed on the older Civic and also failed on my sons 2013 CRV @ year 4, daugher paid some £500 for aftermarket component fix at her trsuted indy, sons dealer fix would have been some £1400 but was covered under Honda extended warranty. Her newer car has needed some recall work and both times the dealership has made a right pigs ear of the job, first and selling dealership lost franchise, first recall for brake work the dealer left the brakes needing pumping to operate, luckily my son collected the car and the conversation a few minutes later when he returned left them in no doubt...second recall other dealer managed to damage the wiring loom or thereabouts meaning removal of engine to complete repair. I mention these points because sometimes marques get reputations their dealers fail to live up to, this can work the other way too of course, Also make sure either you or a competent indy keep those brake calipers properly serviced (full brake strip clean lube is not part of service schedule), preferably with an annual strip clean lube (and keep those rear parking brake levers lubed wher they pivot on the calipers), like all other Japanese cars the brake calipers suffer from the annual UK salt bath and the effort you put into preventing this issue will pay you back times over....even otherwise bomb proof Landcruisers suffer from this with caliper pistons seizing in bores... arguably this applies to all cars wherever they were made, i'm staggered by the neglect generally of car braking systems but then people neglect tyres just as much, weird doesn't begin to cover it. Edited by gordonbennet on 16/08/2020 at 08:24 Sun 16 Aug 2020 09:00 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - catsdad I had a 2012 Civic hatch until last summer when I changed to a 2018 Golf 122bhp estate. Similar but not identical to your situation then. I have been happy with both. In day to day driving the acceleration feels similar. The main difference is that the Honda needs revs to get the best out of it but I generally drive pretty steadily and rather enjoyed the way it picked up its skirts on the occasions I did call upon its performance. Economy in the Civic was around 45 mpg the Golf is about 50. On my mileage that’s about £150 pa difference. Main dealer servicing on the Honda is relatively cheap, the Golf is about 50% more which negates it’s fuel economy advantage. In general driving and it’s controls the Civic felt solid and substantial, the Golf feels a bit lighter. It’s almost like comparing Duplo with Lego. I never liked the stop start on the Civic as it felt mechanically unsympathetic so I always disabled it. The system on the Golf feels right and I generally leave it working. I am not sure if the Leon has an electronic handbrake but the one in the Golf has made me a convert, other than potential cost of repair. As for luggage space both cars swallow the same suitcases with ease. The Civic is much better in this respect than it looks from outside. And it has the magic seats which even when in the down position offer extra space underneath. Also for dogs do not overlook the magic seats. In the up position you have a large dog friendly space and very low sill entry compared to any boot. You would have to work out his best to restrain the dog though. I echo the points re Honda brakes. I had new rear pads at about 30k and new pads and discs all round at 70k. It also began consuming oil from about 60k at about half a litre every 10k miles. Not a disaster but not ideal. At that point it was six years old and online forums suggested there was an oil issue with 2012 cars so it may not affect the 2014 models you are looking at. Other than that the Civic was very reliable over the six years I ran it. If the Golf proves to be as good I will be delighted .......... and surprised. Edited by catsdad on 16/08/2020 at 09:01 Sun 16 Aug 2020 09:43 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - gordonbennet I echo the points re Honda brakes. I had new rear pads at about 30k and new pads and discs all round at 70k. Excellent post Catsdad. Daughter's typeR had new rear pads, at less mileage than you too, and no it certainly wasn't through gentle or lack of use which is what people tend to say causes premature rear pad wear, her type R sees hard use, she has alternative pads fitted (green stuff springs to mind but i might be wrong) now so will be interesting to see if this improves things. All of the Civics she's had have used a small amount of oil, despite stories to the contrary all engines will consume some oil over a long enough period, i'd be wary of a Diesel especially that didn't use anything at all and be wondering how much was increasing fuel content. Sun 16 Aug 2020 16:26 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Tony Houghton Whilst the Civics are very good cars indeed be aware the aircon compressor is a fairly common failure, it failed on the older Civic and also failed on my sons 2013 CRV @ year 4, daugher paid some £500 for aftermarket component fix at her trsuted indy, sons dealer fix would have been some £1400 but was covered under Honda extended warranty. Ah, that could be a game changer. I'm sure you're right, because the compressor failed on my sister's 2006 Civic diesel too. It was only a year or two ago though, so it had lasted a reasonably long time. I wonder if they're less stressed in diesels due to the lower revs? She got a replacement part from a breaker, but the aircon specialist couldn't fit it due to difficult access in the engine bay, and her usual (no longer) local garage claimed that the car, which she had dropped off the night before, wouldn't start when they tried to move it into the bay, and would need a Honda specialist to diagnose/repair. Of course we didn't believe their story, but couldn't prove anything, so she gave up on it and sold it as a non-runner. Sun 16 Aug 2020 17:04 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - corax Ah, that could be a game changer. I'm sure you're right, because the compressor failed on my sister's 2006 Civic diesel too. It was only a year or two ago though, so it had lasted a reasonably long time. I wonder if they're less stressed in diesels due to the lower revs? The compressor must be a poor design with some intrinsic fault. I can't understand why Honda have perservered with this component through the same successive models, I would have thought a company like Honda would have changed their supplier if the old slogan is to be believed. I suppose the answer is to replace with an aftermarket compressor. I remember HJ reporting failures on VAG models some years back and recommending that a Sanden compressor be substituted instead. But Honda should have this problem licked by now. Sun 16 Aug 2020 16:46 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Tony Houghton I’d expand the search to include the Mazda 3 Skyactiv too which is a great used buy. It’s a very pleasant thing to drive, decent on fuel and reliability is top notch. A Toyota Auris Estate is a sensible option too if a bit dull. I think I've missed the boat on the SEAT, it's gone from Autotrader. I was considering Mazda, but was put off by the low power for the engine size. That was just me being silly though, it probably means better torque and reliability, and the 0-60 figure is good. Perhaps I should expand my search further. The main reason I narrowed it down to something Asian or VAG was on the advice of a friend who used to manage a garage. I discounted Kia and Hyundai for being too slow, and I'm not keen on paying extra for an Audi or VW badge. My current car is a Citroen DS3, which has been pretty good to me, but i need back doors now and also feel that I've been a bit lucky and should get rid of it before it gets troublesome, and avoid French if I want something I can keep for years. I'm sure I would have a much better choice if I considered Focuses and Astras, and review sites like Parkers say these are right up there with the best in class, but my friend with the garage also advised me very strongly to avoid Ford and Vauxhall. Is he right? Sun 16 Aug 2020 13:28 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Engineer Andy My main concern is that the electronics might play up, and this might be one area where Seat is weaker than other VAG cars. But even Hondas aren't perfect in this respect when they get old. Any thoughts? I seriously doubt if SEAT electric are any worse than any other main VAG brand - I would say that the main difference between brands is the dealership experience and the expectations vs reality of buyers. Skoda appear to come out on top as regards the dealership experience, with SEAT nearer the bottom in the group, but, like with most dealerships, who owns the local frnachise, and thus how it is run, makes far more of a difference. Yes, how SEAT UK manages those franchises from a QA perspective is important as well, as some makes (like Mazda) have, IMHO, poor UK 'arms' that in my view serve the customer poorly, especially when it comes to making sure dealers are high quality and stamping out bad / dodgy practices. I own a Mazda car but have generally been fortunate with my local main dealership, other owners I know (using other ones) have not fared so well and have not been looked after by Mazda UK. You may find that your local dealer for either SEAT and/or Honda is good or is rubbish. Both cars you've chosen are decent choices, especially going for the belt-cam rather than the chain-driven ones in the Leon, as it appears to be the most reliable in the VAG range and the best value given its decent performance and mpg. Just make sure that whatever you choose has a proven FSH, is in good order and is at the very least covered by a dealers 1 year warranty. Sun 16 Aug 2020 16:08 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Tony Houghton You may find that your local dealer for either SEAT and/or Honda is good or is rubbish. Both cars you've chosen are decent choices, especially going for the belt-cam rather than the chain-driven ones in the Leon, as it appears to be the most reliable in the VAG range and the best value given its decent performance and mpg. I'll probably stick to a local independent for servicing etc. There's a decent one very close to me which is convenient. I think both the cars for sale I've found are from dealers that are independent or franchised to other manufacturers. How can I tell whether a TSI is belt- or chain-driven? Does it depend on the power output and/or the age? Sun 16 Aug 2020 17:47 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Engineer Andy You may find that your local dealer for either SEAT and/or Honda is good or is rubbish. Both cars you've chosen are decent choices, especially going for the belt-cam rather than the chain-driven ones in the Leon, as it appears to be the most reliable in the VAG range and the best value given its decent performance and mpg. I'll probably stick to a local independent for servicing etc. There's a decent one very close to me which is convenient. I think both the cars for sale I've found are from dealers that are independent or franchised to other manufacturers. How can I tell whether a TSI is belt- or chain-driven? Does it depend on the power output and/or the age? Not on power output per se, although it can be a good guide for specific cars - age, sort of - they've come and gone with VAG, but not all at the same time. The best thing is to confirm the engine type code and then find out with an internet search (or ask here - I'm no expert of which engine types they are, but others are). Don't take a seller's word for it, as they could lie to cover up that the car has a less reliable engine or some other part specific to cars built at that time - some which are inherrant faults which cannot be recified or which require a major garage bill to do so. Sun 16 Aug 2020 18:51 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - badbusdriver but my friend with the garage also advised me very strongly to avoid Ford and Vauxhall. Is he right? In a word, no. Yes, there are engines and transmissions in both Ford and Vauxhall you should probably avoid. But do so, and they are just as good as anything VAG. With Ford, stick to the and n/a petrols along with the Ecoboost petrol, avoid the Powershift DCT auto and they are fine. With the Vauxhall, engine wise, stick with the and turbo petrols and avoid the (Fiat sourced) diesels. Manual and auto boxes are fine. I discounted Kia and Hyundai for being too slow, Not sure i understand this statement?. The equivalent Kia to the Civic would be the Ceed petrol (133bhp) which has only less power than the Honda. Yes, it needs to be worked hard to extract the performance, but that is the same with any n/a options, including the Civic. The Hyundai equivalent, the i30, typically has the 118bhp version of the same engine but both it, and the Ceed, are available as a turbo petrol with plenty of oomph (183bhp for the i30, 200bhp for the Ceed). Sun 16 Aug 2020 21:23 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Tony Houghton but my friend with the garage also advised me very strongly to avoid Ford and Vauxhall. Is he right? In a word, no. Yes, there are engines and transmissions in both Ford and Vauxhall you should probably avoid. But do so, and they are just as good as anything VAG. With Ford, stick to the and n/a petrols along with the Ecoboost petrol, avoid the Powershift DCT auto and they are fine. With the Vauxhall, engine wise, stick with the and turbo petrols and avoid the (Fiat sourced) diesels. Manual and auto boxes are fine. I discounted Kia and Hyundai for being too slow, Not sure i understand this statement?. The equivalent Kia to the Civic would be the Ceed petrol (133bhp) which has only less power than the Honda. Yes, it needs to be worked hard to extract the performance, but that is the same with any n/a options, including the Civic. The Hyundai equivalent, the i30, typically has the 118bhp version of the same engine but both it, and the Ceed, are available as a turbo petrol with plenty of oomph (183bhp for the i30, 200bhp for the Ceed). I think you missed that I'm after a used car, with a budget in the ballpark of £8000, which typically gets a 2014 car in this class at dealer prices, because I don't see turbo versions of any of those. ISTR reading that the latest generations of Vauxhall and Ford have made considerable improvements in build quality over the generation I can afford. Yes, the Ceed is almost as powerful as the Honda, but either it has a lot less torque, or it's a heavier car, or both, because it's considerably slower, and I remember reading a review that said it feels more lacklustre than the bhp figure suggests. Sun 16 Aug 2020 17:58 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Avant Any make of car is going to have weak areas, so whatever you buy will have an element of risk. Toyotas are know for reliability and longevity, but I get the impression that you'd like something a bit more fun to drive than a Corolla. Try a Mazda 3 and see if you like it: the usual Mazda petrol engine is a non-turbo and needs a lot of revs to make good progress, which may or may not suit your driving style. I don't know why your friend advises you to avoid Fords. There are lots of Focuses to choose from and if you avoid the litre which has a bad reputation, you could get a good one which is at least as good to driver as your original choices. That said, I don't think the Leon or a Skoda Octavia, would be a bad choice provided that you go for the manual tramsmission. Sun 16 Aug 2020 19:33 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Tony Houghton I don't mind it being a bit dull, and would prefer comfort over handling, but I do want reasonably quick acceleration, say 0-60 in under 10 secs. A Toyota Auris turbo might feel more lively in day-to-day driving than the Mazda or Honda, even though it's slower on paper? I used to drive a diesel and miss the pulling power at low revs especially, but with my low mileage now I'd be mad to get a modern diesel. I believe Fords, especially Focuses later than Mk 1, are a bit notorious for electrical gremlins. We used to have a 2002 Mondeo which was a bit dodgy, but otherwise the interior quality felt considerably superior to the Focus Mk 1. Neither of the Ecoboost (or NA engines) satisfy my 10 second rule anyway, so that leaves the Ecoboost. Is that a good engine? (EDIT: No EcoBoosts on Autotrader within my search radius, so I guess it's quite rare, which might not be a good thing). Edited by Tony Houghton on 16/08/2020 at 19:37 Sun 16 Aug 2020 20:39 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - badbusdriver The 0-60 time is pretty much irrelevant unless you constantly find yourself accelerating from a standstill to beyond 60 mph(?). How quick a car accelerates from 30-70mph through the gears, that is a useful measurement but still doesn't take differences in gearing into account (one car may feel faster but an extra gearchange will drop the actual time right down by comparison, same with 0-60). In gear acceleration from 30-50 in fourth or 50-70 in fifth are much more useful for the real world but, along with 30-70 through the gears, are very rarely stated because of the obsession with 0-60. Power to weight ratio, along with how much torque the car has at what revs is what determines how quick a car feels (regardless of gearing). Ultimately (regardless of what the figures may say), a turbo engine is going to feel faster more of the time than a n/a engine of a similar power output unless you thrash it all the time. Sun 16 Aug 2020 23:00 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - SkodaIan My wife's had a 2014 Leon ( TSI 110 engine) since nearly new. It's now at about 80000 miles with no significant problems at all. Only breakdown has been one of the brake disc splash guards coming loose and slipping down scraping on the inside of the wheel. It required a very brief attendance from the AA to remove the wheel to let it fall out, but only because like many modern cars it has no spare wheel or jack so I couldn't do it myself. The engine is plenty powerful enough for a car of that size, and easily does 50mpg on either a motorway or rural run, and a bit less in town. When driving normally, it doesn't feel any slower than the 160bhp in my Octavia. The only real difference is that more revs just seem to make more noise rather than releasing significantly more power when you take it up into higher revs when accellerating hard. The interior feels a bit lower rent than a Golf, but easily as good as a Ford/Vauxhall/Kia etc. Nothing has fallen off or broken inside (despite two young children!) in the five years we've had it. A mate has a had a Civic from a similar era (2015 I think), which has also been completely fine. I think I'd choose the Leon over the Civic, mostly because we have a reasonably priced local VAG specialist who we use for all servicing. There's little point taking a 6+ year old car to a main dealer for servicing, and there are fewer independent garages around who genuinely specialise in Hondas than there are for VAG stuff. Edited by SkodaIan on 16/08/2020 at 23:04 Sun 16 Aug 2020 23:11 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - gordonbennet A mate has a had a Civic from a similar era (2015 I think), which has also been completely fine. I think I'd choose the Leon over the Civic, mostly because we have a reasonably priced local VAG specialist who we use for all servicing. There's little point taking a 6+ year old car to a main dealer for servicing, and there are fewer independent garages around who genuinely specialise in Hondas than there are for VAG stuff. Good point that, lots of VAG specialists about, very few for other makes like Honda unless into the tuning game. Sun 16 Aug 2020 23:29 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - Avant "I don't mind it being a bit dull, and would prefer comfort over handling, but I do want reasonably quick acceleration, say 0-60 in under 10 secs. A Toyota Auris turbo might feel more lively in day-to-day driving...." Your next step could be to try a Auris and see if it's lively enough for you. How it feels to you on the road is more important than quoted 0-60 times. In my experience Toyotas, as well as being reliable, are rather better to drive than magazine road test would have you believe. The previous petrol engines in the Auris were I think slower than the Mon 17 Aug 2020 09:15 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - catsdad If acceleration is important then how it is delivered may also be a factor. For me the characteristics of turbo v non-turbo is one of the few really distinguishing left in modern cars. The 122hp Golf and Civic have broadly similar 0-60 times in everyday use. The 148 hp VAG is a little quicker on paper. However the VAG cars deliver this with a turbo boost from the lower part of the rev range upwards while the non-turbo Civic doesn’t kick in until it’s revving at a higher rate. It may be a marginal difference on paper but it feels quite marked driving them in practice. Simply put you need to rev the Civic harder to get maximum acceleration. Doing so makes the engine sing to my ears but others may find it noisy. As Avant says test drives will help work out which you prefer. Mon 17 Aug 2020 10:16 SEAT Leon ST - Honda Civic or Seat Leon - gordonbennet Indeed, i personally don't like having to rev engines hard to get decent go from them and a Honda isn't for me, i put that down to driving lorries for ever and it just doesn't feel right, nor is it enjoyable for me to have to rev an engine high, i suspect many turboDiesel car drivers would find the same, having long ago got used to that huge torque once the turbocharger came on stream, maybe ex t'Diesel drivers find themselves more at home in the new t'petrols. Others like the Honda engine type driving experience, each to their own, my daughter for one though she's finding herself torn between her two cars, the later turbocharged Civic feels a bit dead to her at below spool engine speeds but once above that point all hell breaks loose, where the older NA engine provides in some ways a more fun experience for her despite having much less power as the flat spot at lower revs isn't quite so pronounced, its possible she's finding the typeR might be too rapid for modern roads. Can't knock the general reliability of these Hondas though, she's covered several hundred thousand fast miles in 4 Honda Civics, 2 x 2 litre S types, 1 x and 1 x litre turbo, never had a breakdown as such, one clutch, not cheap, some front suspension parts especially start to wear as the miles climb, again not cheap, and as discussed earlier the obviously weak aircon compressor problem, engines and gearboxes (all manual) trouble free, her first two were will into 150k+ miles and still running reasonably , her first one got bent and scrapped, i seem to recall it was general suspension wear that scrapped her second one simply too much to spend considering its age etc. Edited by gordonbennet on 17/08/2020 at 10:21

honda civic vs seat leon